Comments on: The General Council vote: issues and predictions http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/ Pentecostal Rumination and Review Sat, 23 Jan 2010 06:34:55 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Sarah http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67583 Sarah Sat, 01 Sep 2007 12:02:02 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67583 Here is what one writer in Fort Collins thinks of the Senior Pastor of a "mega-church" there: "Jesus may be Lord at Timberline Church, but Dary Northrup and those he favors are the greatest individual financial beneficiaries of that franchise. Dary Northrop assures the congregation continuously that Timberline's leadership is accountable and sober. But, ask to look at the books and the inquiry will be treated like sin on Sunday. Dary Northrop, and his friend Jeff Lucas, live lavishly like few of those who attend Timberline each week. Jesus loves you Dary. He also loves you to show us your compensation and expense package. And, while your at it, show the corporation's provisions for distribution of its assets upon dissolution. Toto, where are you?" The men who run these churches have turned them into their own private franchises. They do not model Jesus who preached poverty and the spiritual mischief caused by wealth. Jesus had no place to lay his head and owned no beast for transportion. He taught as much or more by example than he did by flapping his gums. The particular pastors referred to in the post above are millionaires. The Senior Pator, Dary Northrop, shows up part-time to preach. Not a bad gig. The motto of Timberline Church is "Let Love Live". But, the love that Jesus spoke of did not have a dollar sign in front of it. Here is what one writer in Fort Collins thinks of the Senior Pastor of a “mega-church” there:

“Jesus may be Lord at Timberline Church, but Dary Northrup and those he favors are the greatest individual financial beneficiaries of that franchise. Dary Northrop assures the congregation continuously that Timberline’s leadership is accountable and sober. But, ask to look at the books and the inquiry will be treated like sin on Sunday. Dary Northrop, and his friend Jeff Lucas, live lavishly like few of those who attend Timberline each week. Jesus loves you Dary. He also loves you to show us your compensation and expense package. And, while your at it, show the corporation’s provisions for distribution of its assets upon dissolution. Toto, where are you?”

The men who run these churches have turned them into their own private franchises. They do not model Jesus who preached poverty and the spiritual mischief caused by wealth. Jesus had no place to lay his head and owned no beast for transportion. He taught as much or more by example than he did by flapping his gums. The particular pastors referred to in the post above are millionaires. The Senior Pator, Dary Northrop, shows up part-time to preach. Not a bad gig. The motto of Timberline Church is “Let Love Live”. But, the love that Jesus spoke of did not have a dollar sign in front of it.

]]> By: Rich http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67272 Rich Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:46:28 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67272 Interesting, I hadn't read yet that Bridges was retiring. Well, in that case, it could prove very interesting. I'm sorry I won't be able to watch it live! Rich. Interesting, I hadn’t read yet that Bridges was retiring. Well, in that case, it could prove very interesting. I’m sorry I won’t be able to watch it live!

Rich.

]]> By: Jay C. Anger http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67271 Jay C. Anger Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:41:13 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67271 Wait a minute Rich! You forget that Doug is now the top seed for the office of General Secretary! That'll leave Beth as the next viable candidate for Treasurer. It will be interesting to see the underlying dynamics of the GC play out in public. If we see the majority of the vote begin to go to John Palmer over Beth for that slot, we will know how the majority of the GC REALLY feels about women in leadership. Wait a minute Rich! You forget that Doug is now the top seed for the office of General Secretary! That’ll leave Beth as the next viable candidate for Treasurer. It will be interesting to see the underlying dynamics of the GC play out in public. If we see the majority of the vote begin to go to John Palmer over Beth for that slot, we will know how the majority of the GC REALLY feels about women in leadership.

]]> By: Rich http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67270 Rich Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:35:44 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67270 Jay, it'd be exciting to see Elizabeth Grant get that slot, very exciting. I suspect, however, it'll be a tight finish and Doug Clay will get the nod. Hey, shoot me an email this afternoon and tell me how it went. I won't be able to watch the proceedings after lunch. I have family visiting. Rich. Jay, it’d be exciting to see Elizabeth Grant get that slot, very exciting. I suspect, however, it’ll be a tight finish and Doug Clay will get the nod.

Hey, shoot me an email this afternoon and tell me how it went. I won’t be able to watch the proceedings after lunch. I have family visiting.

Rich.

]]> By: Jay C. Anger http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67266 Jay C. Anger Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:12:22 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67266 Could it be that Beth Grant could become our first female executive in the office of Treasurer? I don't recall a female candidtate ever making it into the top three (and staying in the top three) for Assistant! Could it be that Beth Grant could become our first female executive in the office of Treasurer?

I don’t recall a female candidtate ever making it into the top three (and staying in the top three) for Assistant!

]]> By: Rich http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67262 Rich Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:58:39 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67262 Continued in the comments section of the <a href="http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/10/george-wood/#comments" rel="nofollow">George Wood</a> post... Continued in the comments section of the George Wood post…

]]> By: Rich http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67261 Rich Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:40:35 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67261 Here's how the vote counted out: <blockquote>1188: Garrison 686: Clay 226: Grant 173: Palmer 141: Betzer 86: Benson 77: Smith 77: Raburn 62: Greene 51: Valimont 44: Cook 41: Klaus 40: Cargill 30: Griswold</blockquote> Going into the next round of votes now. Here’s how the vote counted out:

1188: Garrison
686: Clay
226: Grant
173: Palmer
141: Betzer
86: Benson
77: Smith
77: Raburn
62: Greene
51: Valimont
44: Cook
41: Klaus
40: Cargill
30: Griswold

Going into the next round of votes now.

]]> By: Rich http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67260 Rich Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:30:30 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67260 <b>George Wood was elected General Superintendent this morning.</b> In the bid to get younger ministers on the executive committee, <a href="http://ag.org/top/Events/General_Council_2007/Business/Resolutions/Resolution_04.cfm" title="Resolution 4 – Compositon of General Presbytery" rel="nofollow">resolution number four</a> failed. The change would have been: <blockquote>"The Executive Presbytery shall select 30 members to serve a 2-year term based on ratios of approximately 25 percent ordained females and 75 percent ordained males under the age of 40."</blockquote> There followed much was discussion about rescinding the vote and reconsidering. One pastor was concerned that denying this resolution sends the wrong message to the Fellowship. Another concerned that there are too many mega-church pastors on the committee and that's why he voted against changing the composition. The current general presybtery includes only six ministers under age forty. The median age is 61, the average age is 62. As I write this, the debate continues regarding Resolution four. Nominees for the first electoral ballot for the Assistant General Superintendent: <blockquote>M. Wayne Benson C. Dan Betzer H. Franklin Cargill Douglas E. Clay Robert G. Cook, Jr. L. Alton Garrison A. Elizabeth Grant Thomas W. Greene Larry H. Griswold Byron D. Klaus John M. Palmer Terrell R. Raburn Zollie L. Smith, Jr. Randy L. Valimont</blockquote> <p><img height="30" alt="Rich" hspace="0" src="http://tatumweb.com/blog/pix/richsig.gif" width="58" vspace="4" border="0" /></p> George Wood was elected General Superintendent this morning.

In the bid to get younger ministers on the executive committee, resolution number four failed. The change would have been:

“The Executive Presbytery shall select 30 members to serve a 2-year term based on ratios of approximately 25 percent ordained females and 75 percent ordained males under the age of 40.”

There followed much was discussion about rescinding the vote and reconsidering. One pastor was concerned that denying this resolution sends the wrong message to the Fellowship. Another concerned that there are too many mega-church pastors on the committee and that’s why he voted against changing the composition.

The current general presybtery includes only six ministers under age forty. The median age is 61, the average age is 62.

As I write this, the debate continues regarding Resolution four.

Nominees for the first electoral ballot for the Assistant General Superintendent:

M. Wayne Benson
C. Dan Betzer
H. Franklin Cargill
Douglas E. Clay
Robert G. Cook, Jr.
L. Alton Garrison
A. Elizabeth Grant
Thomas W. Greene
Larry H. Griswold
Byron D. Klaus
John M. Palmer
Terrell R. Raburn
Zollie L. Smith, Jr.
Randy L. Valimont

Rich

]]> By: Jay C. Anger http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67252 Jay C. Anger Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:35:24 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67252 @Rich: Well I confess that I can armchair pontificate with the best of them about all the things that are wrong - but that is just because it is SO EASY to pick out weak spots in individuals - especially when we struggle with the same weaknesses ourselves. When we see "signs" of underlying symptoms in others that we ourselves have struggled with and tried so hard (for years sometimes) to hide ourselves, we can easily snipe off that individual a mile away. But the words of Jesus ring true: "By the same measure you judge . . . ." I do have to tip a hat to Charles Crabtree tonight. There were some powerful points in that sermon that were simply pure gold. @Rich:

Well I confess that I can armchair pontificate with the best of them about all the things that are wrong – but that is just because it is SO EASY to pick out weak spots in individuals – especially when we struggle with the same weaknesses ourselves. When we see “signs” of underlying symptoms in others that we ourselves have struggled with and tried so hard (for years sometimes) to hide ourselves, we can easily snipe off that individual a mile away. But the words of Jesus ring true: “By the same measure you judge . . . .”

I do have to tip a hat to Charles Crabtree tonight. There were some powerful points in that sermon that were simply pure gold.

]]> By: Brian Roden http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-67251 Brian Roden Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:17:15 +0000 http://tatumweb.com/blog/2007/08/08/call-the-vote/#comment-67251 From the denominational list of light bulb jokes: <blockquote>How many A/Gers does it take to change a light bulb? What? Change?!?!?</blockquote> From the denominational list of light bulb jokes:

How many A/Gers does it take to change a light bulb?

What? Change?!?!?

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